S1 E3: You Are Not Alone

CASAT Podcast Network

Well we are excited to be here today with jed, a fire captain, and jen and E.R. Physician.

And so um to uh first responders and family members really together so it’s gonna be really fun conversation today, excited to have you guys welcome.

Thank you.

Um So as we get started, we’re curious what are the major stressors that your family faces that maybe non first responder families may or may not have to deal with?

I think one of the big ones is lack of consistency on the schedule, especially on the fireside working a 48 96 or two days on four days off.

I’m Gone from the House three days a week.

Um So I’m always bouncing back and forth between work and home routine and the kids have adapted really well, but we’ve made it so that they’re they have no change in their routine no matter who’s here, whether it’s my wife or I or the nanny.

So um but that is always a struggle to balance making sure everybody’s there and everybody’s getting what they need and the changing in schedules because sometimes he doesn’t come home when he is supposed to because he gets um forced to stay because of short staffing or he gets sent out on a fire and he’s gone for days on end.

Um and sometimes my schedule I don’t always get off when I’m supposed to and um sometimes I have to go in when someone else needs to shift covered.

So it’s just a matter of kind of trying to fill in the blanks but try to keep it as consistent for the kids as possible.

And so I’m curious.

You talked about the shift work and being on call, How does that impact the day to day family life?

You said you could try to keep it consistent for the kids.

But what does that look like for you all I every day, no matter who’s here, you know, they have their, the set like times, it’s time when they get up the time when we have breakfast, go to school.

Um, and I think that the biggest helpful thing for our older kids, which are nine and six is we have a calendar posted in the kitchen and they can see when mom and dad are working and they can also see when their stuff, when their stuff is coming up, karate or tee ball or soccer or whatever it is.

Um, and they know their schedule but we make a very big effort to make sure that this stuff always happens.

We always try to have dinner at the same time every night.

Whether I’m not home or whether my wife jen is not home.

Were we always try to make that consistent so that they have that I guess I guess it’s comforting to them at that at that age.

No, they’re gonna get the same thing every day.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, We’ve heard a lot about the importance of consistency from truck dr trudy and routine and then communicating with the family and the importance.

So I love this idea of the calendar and the kids, you can always check and see where is mom or dad today And that just reinforces the importance of that.

I think they’ve also gotten a habit of, or we have, um, at night when we’re saying good night or kissing goodnight, we normally without fail in one or two or three of them always ask like who’s gonna be here in the morning or what are we doing tomorrow?

And so when they go to bed, they kind of know mommy’s going to work in the middle of the night.

Daddy will be here and mommy’s going to work the middle of the night.

Miss cassie will be here or daddy comes home tomorrow or that kind of thing.

So we tend to inadvertently, definitely not intentionally but close out our day as they’re going to sleep kind of.

So they know what to expect the next day.

And I’ve noticed that more like the last year or so.

And I don’t know if it’s just aged appropriate and her three year old actually probably asked more than any of them.

She likes to just ask at night what the plan is for the next day, but it seems to have her and then as far as routine and consistency, um, technology has just really helped with that.

And in particular facetime, you know, being able to put a face with the voice and the kids really, even if it’s two minutes of me talking to them and then being able to see my face that really adds to their day, like it gives them that comfort.

That feeling that I’m there still, you know, as opposed and in a bad network I read that.

Yeah, I can’t, I’m just thinking, I can’t imagine trying to navigate that.

We have enough time getting kids to soccer practice.

I can’t imagine navigating who’s working and when they’re going to work and all of that.

What are some of the difficulties, not just in the technicalities of the schedule, but for for you all like, is it difficult when you’re gone for, for three days with the family or you know, there’s obviously the schedule is one thing, but how do you deal with with being gone or how how do you help the kids cope when maybe they’re having a hard time if if dad’s gone, our mom’s gone.

I think that um like he said technology and Facetime, if one of the kids wants to talk to him, then they can call and we know that if he doesn’t answer, that’s it and we don’t call back until he can call us because it means that he’s busy, but they are getting old enough now that if they want to talk to him, we say, okay, do you give him a call and see if you, you know, I can do that, um I mean as far as balance, like it has become difficult at times um for me um because my priorities and my my balance at work are completely different from what my priorities, my balance is at home and The second I walk in the door from two days of work I I have to change roles.

Like there’s no I’m not fire captain anymore, we’re not responding to emergencies and the requirements for me or the needs for me for the family are completely different so that at times can become different difficult and and we we worked through that, I mean that’s and I think just having that schedule knowing I can look at the night before when I come home okay what do we have going on today?

Um And then you know making time for yourself.

I like getting Even if it’s a 30 minute workout in like totally totally helps.

Like just that ease your mind and give you something to focus on without um diving back into the day to day routine.

We’ve had trouble not trouble, we’ve had to learn how you know I do things a certain way, he does things a certain way and it’s not always the same way and I think that’s totally normal in a relationship or in a family but sometimes I get used to doing things the way I do it and the kids get used to doing things the way I expect it to be done and then when he’s gone, you know, then he comes home and you kind of shift gears because sometimes he expects a little bit different or he anticipates needs differently or responds to questions that he asked different than I would have, but you have to be just as supportive because his no needs to be as important as my no, but just, well mom would have said this and not always the case.

So we tried really hard to be on the same page, but it’s hard sometimes when even I and caught off guard because he would have handled something differently just as if when I’m gone where I work a bunch of mornings in a row and he’s done mornings and they, you know, he does it one way and I come home and mix it up and do it a different way.

So that is hard and it’s an ever work in progress.

Yeah, we’ve had to work on being on the same page and being the team and supporting one another and not letting them play us.

What are some of the communication strategies that you guys use to navigate those waters, hmm, that’s changed over the years to trying to just speak kind of kindly in addressing it or to each other.

But more than that it’s trying to set time aside to discuss what’s going to happen or anticipate needs before they happen so that we can kind of be on the same page and that’s impossible to do all the time, but we try to anticipate needs of the kids are of each other so that we can be more united when things happen, but that’s not always the case.

And sometimes it’s kind of like in the moment we need a minute guys while we figure it out before we can tell you how we’re doing it and if you’re, you’re frustrated, we found that, you know, it’s best to not hang on to it and to address it at, you know, the most convenient time, but not hang on to it for a long time because it just grows legs and it’s easier to address it right out of the gate than it is to do it to three weeks down the road.

That’s what I think that’s one of the things we’ve heard a lot from families and uh dr Trudy is how important communication is, but not just about, like you said the schedules, but also like that transition when you come home or the transition of different parenting styles and and all that.

So it’s, there’s more of a need for constant communication about kind of what’s going on and just because things are so different.

I can imagine how difficult that is.

Absolutely, I like to think that everything just ebbs and flows and goes together in a day, but it doesn’t most days I think, but being able to say he’s really good at saying like I’m in the middle of something or he comes in more like what do you need from me right now rather than him just starting to do what he thinks we need and then me doing what we think and vice versa if I come in or he’s working on something that he started, I say, what do you need from me right now rather than trying to just guess and then kind of stumbling over each other, but we’ve, I had to learn that.

Yeah, that’s definitely didn’t come naturally.

May have been a couple of bumps along the road to get there, you know, I’m curious what we’re talking about communication.

You both work in these frontline roles.

So how do you communicate about work?

Like do you guys give each other the nitty gritty details of what happened.

Do you know what does that look like?

Free wall?

I think sometimes we do and sometimes we don’t um, if one of us needs to talk, the other one is just there to listen and we can go as in depth as we need to and sometimes it’s just more of the same for the both of us and so we don’t have to, I don’t, I don’t know if that makes any sense but needs to, I listen and he can go as deep as he wants or nitty gritty as he wants, but sometimes like how are you busy not, you know this or that And because we almost know the ins and outs of each other’s then we almost don’t have to talk about it as much as we are.

We are lucky in the respect that like I but I was a paramedic before I was a fire captain and both of us understand, you know the stuff that we see in the stuff that we do.

And so if I do say something or mentioned something to her, she immediately understands it.

She doesn’t have to ask questions and can easily listen and actually understand the situation.

Whereas I do have guys at work that their wives or the other wives don’t do any type of E.

M.

S.

Or fire or anything.

And it’s difficult at times for them to one.

They don’t feel that they should share the stuff that they see or do because you know, their wives have never been exposed to that and they feel they just shelter them and then to their they don’t get the understanding.

Like, you know, you can actually generally see when somebody truly understands what you’re talking about as opposed to just like getting it off your chest.

That is that is a nice aspect.

But we’re just lucky in that regard, Do you?

And just kind of sticking with the same thing.

And I’m just curious because we’ve talked a lot about fear of safety for families of first responders, right?

And I mean you were both in, especially this last year with Covid.

And I mean it’s up in northern Nevada.

We have we’re not strangers to fires.

So, right.

We have we have a lot of like dangerous in both of your your jobs.

Right.

And so how do you or do you struggle with each other’s the fear for kind of each other’s safety?

Or is it because you manage your own that it’s easy to manage kind of that fear for your spouse.

I think that I have less risk than he does.

And so I don’t know if he considers worries about me at all the same way.

I absolutely worry, but or think about it, but I have to this far in with this many more years to go, I have to trust the process and just know that for the most part, yes, awful tragedies happen.

But for the most part, these guys are safe no matter what they’re doing, rescuing fires, uh, medical calls.

And I just have to trust the process that he’s with other people that will take care of him as he would take care of them in addition to who they’re serving.

And if something happens by all means, you know, I I can’t imagine.

But, and I thought of the worst, but I just have to believe that maybe it won’t if it does and we’ll address it at that time.

Um, the hardest part I think is when there are things local and you kind of want to be with your family and you can’t, because you have to be with your community, whether he, you know, these fires this past fall or with this pandemic.

A lot of people were holed up at home and we couldn’t, we had to keep leaving every day.

Um, but it’s what we meant to do.

So it’s what we are doing and we intentionally signed up for.

So I just have to trust the process.

That’s the only way I could get through it.

Um This year was the first time ever that I actually worried about her at work because of the fact, you know, we were all exposed to Covid on a regular basis, but the hospital was definitely the hub of the patients come in there and she was definitely exposed to true Covid, like on a consistent basis.

And I think that was definitely wasn’t unnerving but worrisome at times because we just, nobody knew what was going to exactly happen.

Um, and we, we definitely took all the precautions and stuff, but it was still unnerving for me, even though I was doing the exact same thing, right?

Yeah.

I think that’s what we’ve heard from some of the folks in the hospital staff is, and even with with spouses and, and fire or in police services, just that, that new level of worry this year with Covid was something that had employed some new skills.

So how do you, how do you deal with that?

Like what are some self care techniques or ways that you deal with.

Um, you know, the stress or the fear that may come up.

I think the first thing for us is, you know, putting the rationalizing exactly what we’re doing like being very true and then gathering the facts like what is actually are we dealing with as the information would come out, we would actually just sit down and kind of break it down and discuss it, Make sure that both of us were on the same page and then talk about what precautions we could put in place for our family and when we’re at work.

Um, and both of us reviewed the policies and procedures are places of work put into place and make sure that we were being safe at work and at home.

And I think that that we’re on the same page that gave us both of us some a sense of a little bit calmness about the whole process and we just started going through it.

We changed as we needed it to from like coming home and immediately showering and changing out of her scrubs and all her stuff at work and and not bringing in into the house and then me utilizing all the precautions we had to work.

So I think, I don’t know if you fighters have found this, but I would anticipate that a lot of frontline workers probably aren’t very good at self care because you’re so used to killing for others.

I would actually, I never thought of it like that, but I doubt it.

Neither of us are very good at it.

And then I think in a time of a pandemic, when you’re everything that you know has changed at work and home, there really was no time for that.

But in a way, having a little bit of time last year to be at home and everybody was just home when we came home and had some time to get outside.

Really?

I was probably able to decompress more during the spring and summer last year then on a regular basis because you get done with work or you walk in the door and you go go go.

And last year we were going to, you know what I place where you didn’t always know what was going to happen, covid wise, but you got to come home and everybody was here and you didn’t have any place to rush off to it.

You could go outside, you could go for walks and go for bike rides.

It actually in a way worked out pretty well to have to slow down after having so much stress of being at work and dealing with the unknown.

Otherwise I wouldn’t say we’re very good at self care, but we are working on it.

It sounds like you are because I think, I mean the thing that comes up a lot is a mindset, right?

Having that mindset of, of control what you can and and also like taking advantage of the time you have and so a lot of the things that dr Trudy’s talked about, I mean you guys have brought up already, so you guys are, I think you’re better at it than you think that’s what I’m saying, you had a lot of work to do it good, but that’s and that’s such a, I just think that’s such an interesting part of how I don’t know this for, for the way the shutdown and Covid was affected a lot of people negatively for those that were still on the front lines.

It was almost like a necessary like pause and kind of like you said like a decompression and really helped with with everything else that was going on.

I felt that way.

I’m sure everyone, if anything, I think everybody I’ve talked to has had a different experience through this past year, that’s for sure.

Um but we, we came out ahead.

I think a lot of us did jade, you were talking earlier about the challenge in that transition time from going, you know, from being jed fire captain to walking in the door and dad and everything that goes along with being dad and husband.

Um how do you do that transition?

Like what strategies do you use to kind of decompress and to put on that next hat and vice versa when you go to work, I’ve been really mindful, like I have like a routine on my way to work.

Um I listen to music and think about all the things that I’m gonna have to do for the day.

It’s the same on the way home.

Um I listen to music, try to just calm down, but the night before I always try to look at my calendar and review what we have coming up as for the day and then I just put that in my mind and and come up with and have a plan for the day, whether that means okay, I have some free time, I want to get off so I’m gonna make sure I get a workout in and then or I’m going to take our little is to gymnastics or we’re going to pick up the kids and we have all this other stuff to do.

Knowing having, having that schedule for me is comforting.

I’m a big like scheduled follower person and just winging.

It doesn’t work for me.

And so if I know exactly what we have coming up then we can, they can tackle the day.

Um, for awhile there I had a hard time because I’m fire captain, I’m in charge running all this stuff at the fire station, but when I come home I don’t, I’m not, I’m not dealing with fireman, I’m dealing with my kids and my wife, so more of a team effort at home and he’s not um instead of doing asking what do you need?

Um I do that with my guys, I asked them what they need every day, but at the same time it’s a little different home because things do change and price or what is the priority?

Um And if I if I’ve been gone for quite a while that that seems to work the best, what do you mean?

I’m curious also about the impact of um stress, So you both have very stressful jobs and so what is the impact of stress on yourself as well as your family?

I think the big one for me is sleep.

Um I don’t sleep well.

Um I don’t sleep well at work um and it’s hit or miss whether I sleep well at home.

Um and I think and that’s very common across the board for for guys at my fire department um And and pretty much every fire department because you’re you’re kind of in a state of readiness even though you you think that you’re sleeping well, you might not be.

And it’s funny like, right, so I wear my watch that tracks my sleep at work and I’ll get like maybe 30 minutes of rem sleep at night, the rest, I’m fairly active, I think that’s probably the biggest um impact as far as stress and and not and half the time you don’t even know that you are stressed really.

I think your body is coping with it, but you actually are a little more than usual.

Yeah.

I just think about your always in fight or flight response.

Your body is always in that stress response.

And so that signaling that okay, it’s it’s okay to relax and sometimes that button doesn’t get turned on him for sure, jen how about you?

What’s the impact of stress on you from your job?

I must be, he tells me that I must be in denial because I don’t feel stressed on a regular basis at all.

Um I I think I have a high stress job but I’ve been doing it for so long and I’m used to it that I don’t feel overwhelming stress very often.

Um and I don’t know if I’m lucky enough to just be able to move through it.

I definitely compartmentalize and I’ve learned that over the years but I can just leave it in a box and move on and sometimes revisit it and sometimes not and I don’t know, you know that that’s forever healthy but but it works and um I’m also lucky though that I go and I come home and I’m no, I’m just I worked the whole time but I just don’t have this constant what if next like they do.

I say all the time.

Like I have controlled chaos, They have chaos and I can’t imagine doing what the true frontline or for true first responders do.

It’s a completely different mindset and so I think I would feel completely differently if I was in their shoes, but I trained for a long time to do exactly what I do.

So I feel like I’m prepared to do my job and then I get to leave and come home and go about my normal schedule.

I do once in a while, just need some downtime and I go, go, go, go, go and sometimes I just need a day to do not very much and then I’m ready to go again for a while.

But I think that’s really the extent of how I feel, but sometimes I just need to be done.

You mentioned that self care, you know, as a care provider, you give so much to others, but taking time for self care is challenging.

What are some of the barriers to self care for you for us.

I think the biggest one is probably just the kids, we still have a toddler that’s home with us most of the time as she does more and more school days in preschool, we will do better and better because we were at that point before she was born with our older ones and then we are lucky to get weekdays off.

So we get days off together.

Sometimes we get days off alone with nobody else at home and as our littlest gets older, we’re getting more and more of that.

And so for me, uh it’s definitely getting in a workout, getting to the gym and seeing my girlfriend’s now that we’re coming back out of this pandemic.

I like to have lunch or go for hikes and um have friends around me and that that’s important to me.

And now we’re able to get closer and closer to that.

Again, me too.

Just making the time, he’s not as good about going and doing stuff for himself.

He likes the workouts that I have to urge him and we do sometimes we just schedule it on the calendar that he loves because he’s not if I say why don’t you ride your bike?

He’s like no, like that mountain bike right?

Like he’ll go and then he enjoys it.

But he also tries to be very available for the family because he feels guilty.

I think that he’s gone.

And so it’s hard for him to take more time away.

But finding that that’s important too.

And I really, I wonder that often if you know the time away, then it’s like, well there’s there’s no time to take time for me.

Like now I’ve got to be with my family and so that rub there.

Yeah, it’s definitely a I guess so we can call it an internal struggle that I have because I, because I do feel that way, you know, and it’s taken me a while to get to that point that, oh I do need do something for myself, you know, for whatever reason I don’t understand why I get I get relaxation and fun about or feel better about like watching my truck or doing yard work, but I don’t know, some people do something, but that’s my little outlet.

Yeah, and that’s, I think that’s one of the other things we’ve talked a lot about on this podcast is um finding what works for you.

What are the ways that you decompress and if it’s washing your truck awesome, like you’ve got a very clean truck, you can come wash my car anytime because that is not my experience, the days that I say that sometimes I just need a few hours or half a day to do nothing.

I mean do nothing for him when he says I need a day or half a day to myself, it’s like task, task, task, task, task, but the house and the yard and the cars look great.

So I can’t say and it’s their duty for him.

So we let it happen.

That’s awesome.

I have a question that’s more because this has just come up a lot with some of the families we’ve talked about and with dr Trudy around news and and just kind of how you engage with the news, especially with this last year with, with Covid and how everything is just, I mean in both of your, your jobs?

Um there’s a lot that goes on with obviously with, with the news and um how do you do you have a way to like process the news or um is is it something that you guys even engage in really with kind of engaging in you know the news or what’s going on?

I don’t routinely follow national news.

Um I rely on like twitter and the local like R.G.J.

And News Channel eight Apps you know and they alert you if something big is going on and if if you feel that you that’s gonna you’re interested in and you want to look at it.

I look at it other than that I don’t let it consume my day.

Um Because it could like you could literally sit there and listen to them moderated all day long and it’s I think that’s an added stressor because you have no control over it.

Like there’s no there’s literally no control over what is what they’re saying.

Um But I do try to keep on on local issues.

I think that’s more important than anything.

It’s just being aware of what’s going on in your community, especially on my side because um like we are we are out there in the community and and routinely we do get asked but citizens like well what do you think about this or what do you think about that?

And I think um it is our job to kind of know about what’s going on?

Maybe not give your opinion but validate their concerns.

I watch far less news than he does.

He actually, I go to him when I need something clarified and it’s not just, I don’t feel like it’s just local, he knows current affairs globally.

I think far more than me sometimes I feel like we’re living in it and I feel like the news is so negative that I just don’t want more of that.

Um and so I I don’t watch a lot of it and when we’re home we don’t watch a lot of tv.

Um So news in general, I I try not to be ignorant of the facts, but I try to go for the fact that I’m looking for and know the truth and no science across the board and kind of just go like that.

I can’t get caught up in the every day and every different way, they’re trying to say the same thing.

Have you jen have you felt the, the stigma?

So some of the, the health care workers have talked about feeling more of a stigma, especially with the pandemic, like people being afraid because you work in the healthcare industry, but also the kind of the, I think one of the nurses, we had the other day said if people tell her that she’s lying and different things like that.

So, have you felt kind of the the backlash of the stigma this last year, I think there’s always been different, different times for different stigmas.

Um and we’ve always been amongst some of it.

Uh you know, including anti-vaxxers and all the different flues and pandemics previously.

And again, I believe in science.

I’m a scientist really at heart.

Uh and I trust the process.

I mean I think eventually there’s proof in what works and what saves lives and I try to just stay on that side of it and I know there will always be naysayers and occasionally you can change someone’s mind and for the most part, people have to make up their own mind, but that’s all right.

And so I just try to trust the process and know that what I’m doing uh is scientifically proven and we will help the people that believe in that, that’s good.

You know, jed you mentioned community a couple of times.

I’m curious like is community being a part of the community, like how it sounds like that’s a huge value for you and showing up for the community.

So are so being so the, I don’t want to like say this wrong, but everybody trusts fireman, we have a we have a we have a really long history of if you call and there’s a problem, we’re gonna show up, we’re gonna fix it and we see people in their, their worst times.

They trust us with their family members, they trust us with their most prized possessions and belongings.

Um and that that is something I never want to see that trust ever broken.

And I think by especially working in incline village, especially this last year, we’ve had a lot of people moved to town, The town is like bursting at the seams with people and Mhm through the entire thing, our, our service delivery never stopped, like we don’t, there’s there’s not an option to stop people continue to call, we keep showing up and doing what we’re supposed to do and um being at the place that I’ve been for such a long time, like you, you do have a sense of ownership to that, to that place and uh and community and and then the greater reno Tahoe area, but we come down here and help out a lot and uh and I, we live here and you know, so you definitely have that, wanting to always make it better and be a big part of it, how I mean, however you can, I think that’s kind of how I deal with and if maybe I could add, we’re both from this community and now we’re raising our family in this community.

So we talk about community with our kids too and get them to try to pitching and give back and that’s, I don’t know what because of a core of a lot of what we do and who we are as a family and as individuals.

Yeah, I hear that a lot um not from other people just in in the way both of you speak like your love for the community and you’re wanting to show up and be there and that you give it your best and you’re all so thank you for what you do for our community, our pleasure.

So as we wrap up here, I would love if you want to share anything, you know, we have families of frontline workers and first responders listening to this podcast, what message do you have or what do you want to share with them?

Uh primarily like the fireside and the police, but I have the biggest connection to the fireside is I’ve seen it too many times now that, you know, like suicide guys taking their lives for no reason and we don’t know why they took their lives.

Um they have put in such a network of ways to help too, not make that the only option and just ask for help as much as it’s um embarrassing or the last thing you would want to do, nobody’s going to judge you.

We would rather you ask for help and to do the other side because it’s unfortunately, it is such a selfish thing to do because it affects and hurt so many other people.

And it’s just, there’s so many options out there.

Thank you jen how about you?

Um maybe ever the optimist or at least I tried because you’ve been to the other side to is it always gets better.

There’s a lot of cycles and stages you go through with the family with the jobs that we have and you just have to keep working until you find something that works for you.

Just because what we say works for us today doesn’t mean it’s going to work for somebody else, but you just have to keep working to find what will work for your family because there really are a lot of different ways to do it and make it work.

Well, what resources have you all found most supportive or helpful?

I think that the biggest resources your spouse, I mean, especially if you’re on the front lines, they’re, they’re gonna um they need to know that there’s, even if you’re single uh provider, like just a fireman or a policeman or dispatcher, doctor, even your spouse needs to know that they need to try to help be there and try to understand.

So maybe education on their part to understand what your job really entails um would allow you to have an outlet because there at the end of the day, you only, you say you have friends, but at the end of the day, you only have your family, like those will be the only people that are going to be there for you at the end of the day.

And that’s proven time and time again, you might have friends that will come and they are part of your family, but you only have, so um the spouse is like trying to build that relationship with your spouse to have an internal support structure, I think it’s probably the most important thing I would start with and then reaching out to the all the other resources out there that the fire department and everything, we don’t uh post them all the time and we don’t focus on them all the time, it is more of a focus now, but there’s so many resources out there to help, you know, if you need it with anything, I know the hospital and I think that a lot of the first responder agencies have um debriefing protocols and specialists available and a lot of the times it needs to come from upper management to initiate it.

But our nurses know that they can ask for a debriefing and for a specialist to come in after any given case.

And I know that the first responders have specialists available for debriefing, even if it’s to do as a group.

How what did we just see?

What did we go through?

How did we do?

Well how can we do better now, what are we going to do and how are we going to process this?

But don’t be afraid to be the person to ask questions or ask for help going through something or to go over something or to better prepare for the next time.

I think that’s so good.

That’s another thing that’s come up and and I’m just kind of like I’m enjoying each one of these, but I’m noticing the commonality so when I I’m tying the themes together, it’s just it’s exciting to me to see how connected you know this um these experiences are and I think that theme of reaching out for help and normalize reaching out for help and I love the way you said it Jet is we do see more deaths by suicide and a lot of those rates.

And I would imagine the pressure of being like a representative, the community and some of those things you talked about makes it hard to reach out.

But I just love the way both of you put that is it’s it’s okay to reach out.

It’s okay to ask for help and and that communication.

I mean that you all talked about in your own relationship of schedule but also feelings and emotions and all that stuff is so important.

And so thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us and your stories and really value thank you for what you do obviously, but thank you for being here today and we appreciate you.

Thank you for having us.

Good luck with everything.

Thank you both have a good day.

Yeah, you guys too.

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