Season six of CASAT Conversations features professionals from various fields

>> Heather: CASAT Podcast Network. Welcome to season six of CASAT Conversations, where we sit down with professionals who have spent decades in their fields like mental health, addiction treatment, business, sociology and more. In this special season, our guests share valuable wisdom from their careers, reflect on what has kept them grounded and inspired, and offer advice for future generations. Whether you're new to the field, uncertain, about your next steps, or feeling burned out, these conversations provide guidance and reassurance from those who've walked this path. Let's dive into today's episode.


Nancy Roget is Executive Director of CASAT at the University of Nevada

Today we welcome Nancy Roget, Executive Director of CASAT under the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada, Reno. Hi Nancy. Happy to have you here today.

>> Nancy Roget: Thanks for having me, Heather. I appreciate it.

>> Heather: I'm looking forward to our conversation. Please share with us about your career path and all the different experiences that have shaped your journey to date.

>> Nancy Roget: Sure. I went from getting my undergraduate degree in recreational therapy at San Diego State University and I took a counseling class, an upper division counseling class, and fell in love with, the counseling side of the business. And the program that I took the class from had a master's program. So I decided to app, as soon as I finished my bachelor's degree. So at 22, I got into the master's program, at San Diego State. It was a 60 unit master's degree in rehabilitation counseling. And I decided because of my age, to work with adolescents. I had worked with adolescents in the past at a diabetic camp, or a camp for kids who had diabetes, diabetes. And I had worked, my first internship in my program, my master's program was with women who had alcohol use disorders, through the Salvation army, and they were like, what are you doing here? and so, this was a campus wide kind of program that the Salvation army was running, running. And so I decided to go and work with, adolescent girls, who had all sorts of mental health and substance use disorder related problems. So that's kind of how I got my start. I didn't focus, primarily on, folks that had substance use disorders, but certainly the adolescents I worked with at the Salvation army had all sorts of problems. and so I was very committed from the very beginning, of working for community based, treatment programs. and then my last semester in graduate school, I got a paid internship actually with sapta. It was called, Beta at the time. And I worked, in the Las Vegas office and would go learn how to audit programs and do certification of programs and I still had to get my counseling hours in. And so I volunteered at a place called Operation Bridge, which is now still in existence. and I did, it was an outpatient program. It's still primarily outpatient. And I, worked with adolescents and young adults. And then when I graduated, graduated from graduate, school, they had just passed Prop 13 in California. So all of the counseling jobs were kind of going away. And I was like, well, I guess I could, you know, stay and work in Nevada. And that's what I did. I was in my master's program, we had a grant writing class. and the professor that taught it had brought in millions of dollars in federal funding. And so he spent the first two full days of class, eight hours a day, so 16 hours of training. And then he said, I'll see you on this was in August, I'll see you on November, I don't know, let's say 20th. and if you're one, minute late turning in your grant, then, you'll get a D in my course and you can't pass graduate school. A D. And so he tried to make it real world, as much as possible on how to grant write. And so that's And then we had peer review. We had to review each other's grants. We had to rate them, all sorts of stuff. So I got a really good education in grant writing. And when I was working for Operation Bridge, I was hired as the treatment coordinator and then did that for a year and then took over as the director. And I mainly, because I was the only one that had grant writing experience. So I did that for three, three and a half years. And I thought to myself, oh man, if I'm going to stay in Nevada, I need to get to a little bit cooler place, meaning temperature wise. And so I, got a job up, in Reno running a program called Adolescent Care and Treatment, Equus Incorporated. And that was a program for adolescents and young adults with four different levels of care. and I ran that for 12 years, and enjoyed every minute of it. Learned a lot, wrote a lot of grants. and that's where I met Gary Fisher, who was a professor at the university. I would go into Gary's, addiction course, that's what he called it. and every semester and go in and talk about how to provide SUD treatment services to adolescents and their families. and so Gary and I got to know each other and also at that Time I started doing training through the state and with my training partner Mike Johnson and I decided that I really like teaching and training. And so in 19, what was it, 1994, I came up to the university to work on the Addiction Technology Transfer Grant with Gary Fisher doing primarily teaching and helping out with some of our training grants at that time. And did that for a while and then got more into writing federal grants. Gary was a great tutor, mentor on how to write federal grants which was certainly more demanding and a step up from state treatment grants. Not that those weren't difficult to write as well. So and then I became like a co director for our big addiction technology transfer grant and started doing some work nationwide with the other ATTCs. And I stopped teaching in our minor program in I think around 2000. So I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I'm a licensed alcohol and drug counselor. I don't practice anymore. and I do miss the clinical part but. And I do m miss the teaching part but can't do everything. And I took over as Cassatt's executive director in 2006. Awesome.

>> Heather: thank you.


CASAT focuses on training, technical assistance, workforce development

For any of our listeners that don't know what CASAT is, can you just paint a picture of the breadth of programs and things that you do?

>> Nancy Roget: Sure. So CASAT, the Center for the Application of Substance Abuse Technologies which we're trying not to say our full name, we're trying to just do more Cassatt kind, of like IBM. so we have about 20 different grants and contracts. Everything's focused on training, technical assistance, workforce development, trying to help the field utilize research based practices. So we do that in a variety of ways. In our academic programs we have about 1,000 students taking courses. Our courses every semester we have courses that are in person and online. They're undergraduate and graduate. we have a new telehealth certificate program, and we have a peer support specialist program as well besides our minor and our advanced certificate programs. and then we just have a variety of grants and contracts that all look at different ways of being helpful to the field, advancing people's knowledge and skills regarding evidence based practices, whether it's motivational interviewing or it's working with different populations. like firefighters or wildland firefighters. some of the programs that you work on, our new Opioid center of Excellence. and then Certainly we have two student facing programs. We have Nevada Cares, which is for an advocacy based program for people who have experienced power based violence. and then we have our student recovery support program called nrap. and so those are our two university based programs. We also most recently have started helping out with the distribution of naloxone on campus. we have a very large training component that's available for Nevada professionals, as well as anyone else in the nation or internationally that wants to take our courses. We have a huge learning ah, platform that's run very well and is very innovative as far as different topics that people can take to advance their skills or to get specialization ah, or certification. and we have a new program where we're doing alcohol prevention services on campus as well that's just starting up. we've got three or four federal grants that we are involved in, one of which we've been involved with for a long time through the CDC center for Disease Control and Prevention. And we're working with medical assistants to help provide training, technical assistance regarding how to prevent alcohol and cannabis and stimulant exposed pregnancies, by providing training to medical assistants. and that's throughout the United States. so that just gives you, I'm sure I'm leaving out lots of different programs. We're really excited with the work that we're doing and I don't know if we've ever said no to folks like we're not interested in that topic as long as it's ah, related to substance use disorders or mental health related disorders and trying to help folks expand their knowledge and their skills so that we don't have people waiting for services or you know, not wanting to seek services due to the stigma that's around substance use.


I really believe that counselors need to go work in community based programs

>> Heather: Well, thank you for sharing more in case people don't know all of the amazing work that we do at CASAT I'm always blown away by the impact and that the amount of programs, services, education, et cetera, et cetera that we do. So I'm thinking back to your, you know, the 22 year old self that you described and taking a course and it sounds like in that course something inside of you lit up and you knew how you wanted to spend your career. will you speak a little bit about that for any young professionals who are trying to decide where they might want to go?

>> Nancy Roget: Sure. I have a really strong bias. I'll just Say that up front because of my own experiences. But I really believe that counselors, in training, social workers, in training, peer support specialists and training need to go work in community based programs. Because my experience was I saw everything. I worked with criminal justice professionals, I testified in court, I worked with social workers, I learned about all these different programs that were available locally, as well as statewide. I got to testify in front of the legislature numerous times, and I got to most importantly provide services to families and adolescents and young adults in our community and really meet a need. And the cases that I saw, you just can't replace those. and I really learned a lot. We also worked with a very talented group of professionals in town who were already licensed as marriage and family therapists and had very strong backgrounds like Dr. Chuck Holt, Dr. Mary Shadley, just to name two, who would come in and do training for our staff as well as provide family therapy and for our clients family, members and my staff and myself, we just learned so much from them. Whereas I really caution new professionals going directly into private practice. and probably one of the things I would say to folks, to students who were in when I was teaching graduate students is like why would I want to come see you? What expertise do you have besides being in school? Now it doesn't mean that the folks that go directly in a private practice don't have good skills. But the issue is if you're working for a community based treatment program, you will develop an expertise and you're going to develop a following and an expertise that then eventually if you desire to go into private practice, that that will follow you and that you are developing this body of skills and training that can't be matched. And that's sort of the caution I have folks. that's what I caution folks about. for me I learned how to write grants, I learned how to train, I learned how to deal, how to run boards. I learned stuff, you know, that I never thought I would be learning. and you know I learned, although I'm not very good on the donor side of it. We did have donors and we did work with United Way. And I just can't compare the 15 years that I spent in working in community based treatment programs in Nevada and then before then, working for community based treatment programs in San Diego, what I experienced. So anyone who's out there, you know, go volunteer, go work with a community based program. they'll be happy to take you. You might not make as much money, but the experience is unbelievable. And the ability to do a wide variety of different types of activities and to impact clients and their family members and to make a difference, I just can't speak to that enough. M.

>> Heather: Yeah, it makes sense how much it has sort of influenced your work, and the work that you do now. And I think the other part that I'm aware of is the importance of community and resources and being connected to that community.

>> Nancy Roget: Which.

>> Heather: Which happens if you're in a community based program.

>> Nancy Roget: Absolutely.

>> Heather: Mm


Nancy says mentors helped her grow professionally and provide honest feedback

So as you look back, what are some of the most pivotal moments or achievements in your career?

>> Nancy Roget: You know, I have to thank the people that tolerated my 22 year old self and who, who were like, okay, you don't know what you, you know, don't know yet. And so, you know, you know, you might want to sit back and watch and learn and then try it out. but I had a lot of very strong mentors who helped me grow professionally and who you know, would provide honest feedback. some people would say probably critical feedback, meaning both critical as in important but also feedback as far as like stuff maybe that I didn't want to hear. areas that I needed some growth. you know, coming from a clinician, background, and my undergraduate degree I had a lot more psychology, classes than writing classes. And so when I came up to the university, I went to the Gary Fisher School of grant writing and writing. And you know, Gary's an incredible writer. probably I would say 20 some books, on learning disabilities and probably four or five books on substance use, and textbooks and things like that and encyclopedias. And he really helped me with my writing skills. And I think that's the one of the messages that we all can't be, we can't be good at everything. And that you know, don't be afraid of, you know, getting feedback on that. you know, that you have areas you need to improve on. And I to this day have areas that I need to improve on. And my belief is in making sure, you know, is looking at 10 heads are better than one. You know, I don't have all the answers. I like working in teams of people. I like to hear what people think, and how to solve different problems. It doesn't mean I won't make up my mind how I want to do it. If it's My responsibility to make that. That decision. A lot of folks like, why does she want to hear from everybody? And it's like, because that's how I make my decisions. Because I don't have all the information or I don't have all the answers. And I'm always amazed when people are like, well, what about this? And I'm like, man, I did not think about that. And so it's being open to that kind of thinking, or, ah, being open to lots of different viewpoints. and so, you know, make sure that you work in teams, that you trust your teammates, that you learn how to function as a team. I'd always tell my students, because they go, why are you. Why do you have a group project? I hate group projects. And I'd be like, yeah, I know. But in our field, we do a lot of our work in teams. And so I would say, you know, you can fire someone from your group, but you have to tell them, and you have to, you can't just fire them and not tell them. You have to, you know, broach the problem and tell them, and then the person needs to come talk to me, and we'll figure out what the next steps are. And we had. One time we had one of our students who got fired by her group, and she came to talk to me, and we put her in a different group, and that didn't work out as well. And then finally she just did a presentation, ah, on her own, and we talked some more, and she ended up winning, one of our student awards. It was almost like a turn. I don't know if it was a turning point for her. I would say it was, but she was like, man, I need to figure this out. I'm not taking my schooling serious, enough and all of that. So, I just think it's. If I look back at the lessons I've learned, mentor somebody, be there for other people, help other people learn, be patient with folks. Not, everybody learns the same. Not everyone has the same strengths. And then be willing to work as a team and hear feedback, that you might not like.

>> Heather: Oh, thank you, Nancy. That's great. Great leadership advice and great advice for people in organizations and young professionals as well.


What are some of the biggest challenges facing substance use and mental health services today

so I know that CASAT has done a ton of workforce development over the years. What do you see as some of the biggest challenges or some of the biggest needs, within the field of substance use and mental health services today?

>> Nancy Roget: You know, we've been dealing with a, workforce issue. I'd say for 30 years. And so we haven't, we haven't solved it yet. people nationally have made some great impacts as far as now substance use disorder. counselors are now included in some of the loan repayment opportunities through the federal government, through hrsa. So there's been some movement there. I would, you know, I still think that we we don't have a big enough tent to. And we need to invite more people in. and that you know substance use disorder counselors were thought of as like oh those people have like a month sobriety and they start counseling people people and they don't have the training they need, which is not true. And we really need to support folks going back to school and finding ways to pay for folks to go back to school, and to really prioritize as a nation our mental health and our substance use related problems. Certainly we know finally that we see the overdose rates are starting to come down. unfortunately not as much in rural areas. but where's our commitment? And there's some really interesting ideas out there that I'm hearing about at a national level where for example there's a group in Missouri that got all their providers together and said let's come up with a pay schedule so that we're not competing with each other. Because what was happening was provider counselors would go from provider to provider to provider to see who was paying the most. And so this group out of Missouri just as one example got everyone together and said let's put a basic salary down as this and see if we can't keep people rather than having folks compete. I think the other thing we need to look at and this, this was put forward by a woman who was the head of the single state authority for the state of Colorado a long time ago. But she was looking at governor's ah, compacts so that we could have like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, let's just say those three states have their governors create a governor's compact so that we could have folks move from Colorado to Wyoming without and that Wyoming would accept Colorado standards for counselors. And so I think that is something that we need to keep in mind. I think the other thing is certainly the ground swell move, ground swell movement that we've seen with peer support specialists, and that there are great programs out there recovery support or recovery community organizations who really provide a niche for people in Recovery people involved with harm reduction where they have a place where they can go hang out, they can do community service, they can I talk about and they don't like that term, but I like it. It's like a crossfit recovery support program, where it's all about exercise and outdoor activities and lifting weights and being healthy. And it really makes good sense. And so how do clinicians, you know, connect with these recovery community organization? There's one in Utah that just started probably 10, 15 years ago and now they're statewide and now they're, they're supporting their own funding and they have a family support program too. So that's there for families who have loved ones who are still using or who have passed away from an overdose. And there's just some really innovative things going on out there. And I'm just impressed. Like we helped put on a, during COVID a recovery support program, that brought in this group that does a musical group that also raps that they're all in recovery. And their messaging is incredible and they have quite a following and it's like wow, this is, this is impressive. There's another group, another woman, out of Wyoming. She and her sister do presentations where the one woman who's in recovery talks about what was going on with her and then her sister talks about what was going on with herself while her sister was out using and then talks about this is what happened in our lives and now her sister's in long term recovery. But having that kind of presentation and that you know, it really helps people understand the process and how devastating substance use disorders are, but that people do recover and they recover with support and help and that it's up to us to never give up on anybody.

>> Heather: I'm hearing these really interesting threads of community purpose and meaning, as well as creativity in all of these examples.

>> Nancy Roget: Yeah, you know there are folks out there that I'm always amazed at like the work that they're doing. Give you another example in North Dakota, there's a guy who runs Heartview, which is a treatment as for profit treatment program, Kurt Snyder. And a long, long time ago he contacted this researcher, from West Virginia, because of rural issues and they started a Facebook program, and they had their staff monitor it and because they were sending people back to very remote areas with very little support. And so they were looking at would Facebook, you know, postings and Facebook Live and all sorts of stuff. Would that take, the place maybe of. Of people coming to, like, we used to call it, like a graduation group. We don't call it that anymore. But there are some really innovative people out there and who are doing great work. And it's just. We just have to talk to them and meet them and, you know, help, them tell their story. because, you know, if folks have an idea of how to help their community and they meet with community members and they get feedback from the community members, you know, nothing about us without us. The old saying, you know, they can. They can do incredible things. And then it's up to us training and technical assistance folks to get them on our webinars and, you know, get the word out about the work that they're doing and figure out if we can get resources, to them or researchers to them to help test out some of these ideas that they have.

>> Heather: M. I love that so much. it takes me back to what you were saying about one of the kind of primary issues in substance use is, what I was hearing and you didn't, you didn't quite describe it this way, but that we have a marketing issue. Yes, you do. And that by telling these stories of these really inspirational, people who are doing good work and are showing up and creating community, for recovery and prevention, that we can help change the field.

>> Nancy Roget: We really can. And, you know, there's a spot for everybody in the field, whether you're an ally, whether you're treatment person, whether you're harm reduction, whether you're a researcher, it doesn't matter there, or whether you're in your own recovery. You know, we have a place for everybody. And I, you know, when I first joined the field, you know, it was like, what are you doing in this field? You're a normie. And I'd be like, what? And they would be like, you're a normie. You come from this little white red family in Orange County, California. How did you get into this field? And it was like, I don't know. I wanted to help people. I was young, and I kind of found my place. And, you know, I don't, as I would tell some of the kids, I would go, well, you know, how can you help me if you've, you know, never, you know, injected drugs? and I would be like, well, when you go to the hospital with a broken arm, do you say to the physician, like, hey, have you ever broken your arm before? If, you haven't, then you don't Know how to fix my arm. And I said, I do know how to fix your arm. I do know how to talk with you and support you in making positive life changes and how to reconnect with your family and. Or your kids. and I know how difficult change is and that, we don't want you suffering anymore.

>> Heather: M. The other part I hear is that you care.

>> Nancy Roget: I do, I do. you know, I do miss my clinical work. and, you know, mostly I've been doing grant writing over the years. And you know, it's ah, a skill. It's difficult. and I don't know if I want to continue doing all that, because it's the only thing that Gary, and I were talking about it. You know, it's time limited, so it's kind of like labor. You know, it's like, okay, it only lasts. You know, the grant's due June 30, so, you know, we. It'll be done by then. Although I will have to say that I. We were waiting for this big grant to come out and of course it came out three weeks, before my son's wedding, so had to get, it done quickly. And I'm like, I'm not going to be grant writing, before the wedding and I was. Not during the wedding though, and not after. and you know, it's taking that creativity and then applying it to the grant application and making sure that we have people, that will, work with us and partner with us in our grants and give us feedback, because we don't have all the answers as far as what different communities need and, and all of that. And you know, we've done, we've done Cassatt's, done, really well. We have some good grant writers at CASAT. And that's. That's great. It's a. It's a special talent and you know, it allows us to continue to do some really interesting work.

>> Heather: Absolutely.


There are gaps that need to be addressed when it comes to workforce development

you talked a little bit about training. I'm curious if there are any gaps that you've noticed, that need to be addressed for future workforce development when it comes to training.

>> Nancy Roget: Yeah, I think, I think there is. And so we have been trying to, look at training as a sequence. Events, a sequence of events. And so, you know, the first one is like a knowledge awareness kind of training where you like, really. What's this thing called motivational interviewing? What does it include? And then if I want to pursue that even more, then I can take a Training that's much more skill focused, and that provides, in our opinion, provides feedback on your skills. So it's not just knowledge, it's I'm going to practice these skills and I'm going to give feedback on these skills. And then the third piece would be more about meeting with a consultant to continue to learn like specifics of a particular research based intervention, like group skills using motivational interviewing. and then once again getting that to me the critical piece that we don't always want to pay for or that funders don't always want to pay for is the expensive piece and that is the small group, interactions, practicing the skill and then getting feedback on that skill so that you can increase your proficiency. Because if you look at the literature, unfortunately a great woman researcher who's no longer with us, Kathy Carroll out of Yale, she had several studies where she called it her chat studies. And so she was looking at tape recording, doing audio recordings of sessions. And then she would have experts, in, let's say cognitive behavioral therapy, like rate, you know, was the person doing cognitive behavioral therapy. And what she found was they weren't doing cbt even though they said they were. And what they were doing was like chatting with the client like oh, how's this going? How's this, how's that? And doing very little true clinical work. And so I think where we're where we CASAT and other centers like us nationally need to come in is we need to come in and do more clinical work, and demand that people learn the skills and they get feedback on their skills and they practice their skills just like other professions. Counselors are no different than other professionals. We should be held to strict standards that if we are providing services to people that we are able to designate. Yes, I'm doing motivational interviewing. I've been trained in it, I continue to be training in IT or cbt. And I'm not just sitting down and chatting and having a cup of coffee.


We are not having the uptake in virtual service delivery that we need to have

I think the other piece. There's two other things that I want to make sure, Heather, that we have time to talk about. And I think that has to do with I'm going to jump into telehealth right now. I would say in the last, since COVID but probably before COVID we had the National Frontier and Rural Addiction Technology Transfer Center. And one of the things we started looking at was how to provide virtual, so virtual service delivery. And this was pre Covid, And as soon as Covid kicked in it even, you know, our interest, my interest in it even kicked up even higher. And unfortunately we still are not having the uptake in virtual service delivery that we need to have. the research base is there. It shows that services delivered virtually, whether it's by phone or through video conferencing, are just as effective as in person services. Where the dilemma comes in is not with patients. Patients are like, cool, let's do it. I don't have to drive. I don't have to spend money on gas. I don't have to, you know, maybe get a babysitter for all day. all this kind of stuff. It's the professionals, it's the counselors, it's the social workers and clinical psychologists who are like, I don't know if it's as good. And it is. And so we've been trying to do more and more training in that area, which is why we started. Tara Hamlin started our telehealth certificate program, to give people, who are already counselors or who already have a counseling background more education, regarding that over a semester basis. But I do some webinars with a colleague of mine and she and I have been doing webinars for about seven years, maybe six years. and we've never met in person. She lives in Philadelphia. She trains for us. She also is a licensed clinical social worker and is her practice, private practice is all done virtually. And she started off at a very large treatment program, SUD treatment program in Florida. And these two women were very innovative. And they said we're going to start doing stuff virtually. And way back when, and that's where she got her training. we still work with these two women that started the virtual service delivery at this very large operation, PAR it's called. And so that's where my sort of new interest is. Mary Ellen does the clinical practice stuff and I do the whole review of the literature and what the research says. And we have a really nice kind of partnership in that. And that's where I want to continue doing some of my work is really looking at virtual service delivery. Actually we're calling it hybrid service delivery because it includes phone, ah, and video, conferencing. And so what we're seeing is we're seeing providers who have to make decisions. Like they're going to see somebody in person for group and then they'll see a one on one session virtually. and Then they'll do a phone check in, and we are seeing, at least we did reimbursement, available for those types, of virtual service delivery. So that's a big interest that I have. And you know, the problem is, Like some of the specialties, or specialty problem areas. Only the people that are interested in that come to our conference sessions or our webinars. Rather than having people who are like, well, I might be against this. And it's like, well, come and hear this. And we'd love to hear why you're kind of against it. and you know that, Mary Ellen and I are really interested in getting sort, of slow adopters to come in and go. I don't know if it's as good. Well, okay, great. Let's talk about why that is. So that's exciting for, me. I think the other piece is that the addiction technology transfer centers have done in the past. And we want to see it continue with not only addiction technology transfer centers, nationally, there's 10 of them funded by SAMHSA. There's the prevention Technology Transfer centers as well. is leadership institutes or leadership academies. And a lot, This is probably, I don't know, 15 years ago, even longer. And, Tara Hamblin on our staff ran it for us. but, This was a leadership institute where it took new leaders or, you know, emerging leaders, I guess the term is. And had them, be, nominated. And we had, Like three days of training through the usda, believe it or not. And they have great training on leadership. And. And They had to do like a crisis. not a crisis intervention, inventory. But like, how do you respond to people, that are critical and, You know, kind, of get stuck in their own. Kind of get stuck in their own way, for lack of a better word. and then we matched them with, people, in the field. So. Leaders in the field. And so they did six months of mentoring. And they also had to do a project, at the end for their, provider. And then they graduated from, the Leadership Institute. And it was expensive. And it probably costs probably about $60,000 nowadays to train 20 people, which is very expensive. But I will tell you, the people that Did. Our leadership Institute are now leaders in their field. And, we still see them, we still talk to them. And in fact, I just met with three of them. And they're like, it is the single most important thing that I did. And it changed me as A person and you know, that those type of things, that's where our investment should be. Like who? You know, and they're running big businesses. Some of them, are running big, provider groups, some are working for insurance companies, some are working for the state in leadership roles. And, you know, it's just exciting to us to see what this investment, you know, in 20 people, did it make a difference? And it did.


Cassatt works with organizations to create cultures of well being

>> Heather: I love that so much. I, I do some work, with organizations to create cultures of well being. And it's amazing to me how much a leader impacts a culture of well being. and I've seen really beautiful positive examples of that. And then I've seen leaders come in and really just decimate a culture unfold, unfortunately. And then everybody leaves. And so, like all of these people who loved and cared for the organization and the people can just disappear because of poor leadership. And so it really is, to me, a critical investment.

>> Nancy Roget: You know, I've just been really blessed over the years. I work with some, really talented, committed, caring people. Hopefully most of the time I leave them alone. They go, oh, can we do this? And I would be like, sure, you know, tell me how, how we're going to pay for it. But besides that, you know, and why we're interested in this, you know, and, you know, kind of following, Gary Fisher's model of like, okay, let's, let people go and, and follow their best instincts and let's see what we can do. And you know, I've had people with me for over 20 years and it's just, it, you know, it's just impressive to see if you support people, if you encourage people, if you give them feedback sometimes that they might not like, you know, that they take those opportunities and grow with it. And not in a mean way, but in a way that says, hey, you know, let's. Let's get your best self going here. and, you know, that's. I think that's what, CASAT. that's the best part of cassette. Like, you know, are we going to expect you to work hard? Absolutely. Are we going to let, you have time for your family? Absolutely. and we want to support people's best ideas, you know, and I, know with the learning, with our learning component that we have causat learning. I just sent Michelle, and Janine, like, something I saw from Missouri that they're doing with gift cards. They're selling gift cards for training. And I'm like, oh, That's a great idea. And for me it's not always me coming up with the idea. It's like reading about something or talking with people about what they've done and like, well, could we do that? And how do we encourage folks to use their creativity to take us to the next level? And I think Cassatt's really blessed. We've got great evaluators, great media team, really good fiscal folks that all provide service to us and we don't always know how we're going to pay for everything but you know, it seems to work out in the end and I'm just grateful for all the folks we have working at CASAT. I think we're about 60 folks now and continuing to grow. And I'm just really lucky and blessed to work with such a talented group.

>> Heather: Well I I really hear the importance of people leaning into their strengths, and having people in the right seats, right, whatever the right seat is for that individual, and leaning into, you know, where they flourish and letting them come up with their ideas and also keeping expectations high, which we know is an important part of being in a psychologically safe environment and giving feedback that's honest and direct and with the intention of it being to help that individual grow so that they can be the best they can be.

>> Nancy Roget: Yeah.


What is your hope for the substance use and mental health workforce

>> Heather: So as we close our time together, what legacy do you hope to leave? The substance use and mental health workforce?

>> Nancy Roget: I think it's one of making sure that we have a strong foundation of research based practice, research informed practice that we can point to why we're doing certain things, rather than, oh, it just felt like the right thing to do, that we use our community to help guide our services, that we listen well to the people that we're delivering services to, that we're respectful. I think, the creative piece about looking at what other folks are doing, I mean that's the thing that, you know, I'm just really, really grateful to Gary that allowed me to go and meet all these people nationally and internationally and see what folks are doing and then bring it back to Nevada or to our region and say I wonder if this will fit and can we make tweaks to it so that we understand what our culture is. And so that's my hope, is that my legacy is that people are creative and that they have a strong research ah, base to that. And I would say I just saw it the other leadership thing the other day and it's like, man, organizations that, have a leader that has a good sense of humor, and I added, and that can laugh at themselves and not, you know, and go, okay, yeah, blew that. you know, but, that we can. That we can enjoy, talking, with each other and laughing, and then we get to work. and, hopefully that's the legacy I leave. And then teaching, people how to.

>> Heather: Grant, right M. Yeah, you are a master at that.

>> Nancy Roget: It's a lot of hard work. And you know what? Once again, Heather, I got a good team who, man, they edit the heck out of everything I write and get the words down to, you know, oh, we're 15 words over, so how do we say that better? You know, so thank God. but, yeah, I. I think that's the legacy. That we treat people well, that we're creative, and that we're not afraid, to try new things, and to take lessons learned by other folks and apply them in the work that we're doing.

>> Heather: oh, thank you for everything that you do. I really appreciate you. And thanks for being here with us today and sharing all of your wisdom that you've gained along the way.

>> Nancy Roget: Thanks. Thanks for this opportunity. I've really enjoyed thinking about it and trying to make sure I, have thoughtful responses to your questions. And, you know, I have a lot of people to thank, and no one does this alone, so, in my opinion.


CASAT Conversations is your resource for exploring behavioral health topics

>> Heather: Thank you for listening to CASAT Conversations, your resource for exploring behavioral health topics. We hope you found today's conversation timely and meaningful. Please share this podcast with your friends and colleagues. If you want to learn more, visit us at our blog at casatondemand.org CASAT Podcast Network this podcast has been brought to you by the CASAT Podcast Network, located within the Center for the Application of Substance Abuse Technologies, a part of the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada, Reno. For more podcast information and resources, visit casat.org.